SETTLE A DEBATE
Did that Joe Cole tackle deserve a straight red?
Monday’s round-the-water-cooler discussion
What do you reckon? (The answer’s no, btw.)
Aug
16
Monday’s round-the-water-cooler discussion
What do you reckon? (The answer’s no, btw.)
24 responses so far
Andy Gale // August 16, 2010 at 12:06 pm
Yes it did. It was clumsy. If he’d had broken his leg would you view be different. If so, it’s a red.
frank // August 16, 2010 at 12:12 pm
But he didn’t break his leg.. and was no where near breaking his leg… if a straight red, either you need malicious intent to harm that player (it wasnt malicious). Or if it’s stopped a goal scoring chance. wasnt that either. Yellow card and a word. But no way a straight red. Many many many wors tackles than that will go unpunished this season.
Andy Gale // August 16, 2010 at 12:17 pm
He probably didn’t intend to break his leg. How many footballers really intend to break someone’s leg however bad the tackle? If that was how these things were judged nobody would ever be sent off.
Dan // August 16, 2010 at 12:20 pm
Joe wasn’t going for his legs, he was going in to block the ball, it was a bit rash but no way near as bad as Wiltshire’s tackle on Mach! I had a very good view as I watched the game in 3D (from my seat in the main stand)
TW // August 16, 2010 at 12:40 pm
Absolutely red card. The Laws of the Game say nothing about leg breaking or malicious intent. RTFM, Frank. The laws say “excessive force” and this was as clear example of excessive force as you ever find.
Cristiano Ronaldo // August 16, 2010 at 1:19 pm
Excellent example of a classic scream, clutch, curl into a half roll. This Koscielny guy could be the new me.
Dan // August 16, 2010 at 1:20 pm
So Wiltshire’s tackle on Mach wasn’t “excessive force” then?
frank // August 16, 2010 at 1:29 pm
TW. would you say the tackle by Wiltshire on Mascherano moments earlier was ”excessive force”? That was not a red card. And did not deserve a red card.. If Cole’s challenge was high on the leg (i.e knee/shin level), fair enough. But that was not the case. As I said, a yellow card and a word would of been just. Not the Red. Even Wenger agrees!! If it happend to youre team (man united perhaps?) you would say the same. The rolling about as though the playar was half dead was also a factor. 10 seconds later he was absouloutly fine.. strange that.
Blaine // August 16, 2010 at 1:32 pm
Credit to Cole though. He was sliding for the ball all over the pitch and won possession in some key areas earlier in the half. I liked what I saw!
TW // August 16, 2010 at 1:36 pm
@dan
Did I say that?
@frank
The only thing Wenger agreed to, is that Cole’s not a brutal player and that probably there was no malicious intent. I agree to it too. But this does nto change the fact, that for this particular foul he deserved to be sent off.
As for Koscielny’s behaviour: recently Luke Freeman, a young Arsenal player on loan at Yeovil, has been taken off after a hard tackle with broken leg suspicion. Only the thorough examination in the hospital proved the bones to be ok. On the other hand – last season Cesc played against Barcelona with broken leg. There’s a fine line between a big bruise and a shattered bone, so please don’t scold the player who has no diving history like Ronaldo, Rooney or, erm…, Stevie G.
As I watched the replays on the TV, I was sure the bone had snapped under Cole’s scissor tackle. Koscielny’s comeback surprised me, but then someone reported to Guardian’s MBM that he had an egg-sized bump on his leg.
frank // August 16, 2010 at 2:08 pm
TW – ‘As for Koscielny’s behaviour: recently Luke Freeman, a young Arsenal player on loan at Yeovil, has been taken off after a hard tackle with broken leg suspicion. Only the thorough examination in the hospital proved the bones to be ok. ‘ – Sorry have I missed something here? What has this got to do with the Cole challenge? That tackle was no way near breakinh his legg. Sorry. Please have a look at the replay again. Everytime I see it it gets tamer and tamer. Again as I said a yellow and a word. No way Red.
‘On the other hand – last season Cesc played against Barcelona with broken leg.’ again, what has this got to do with the Cole tackle?!
Agree with the diving. I understand that 99.9% of players dive. (the only player that doesnt that springs to mind is Giggs). Unfortunatly it’s part and parcell with the ‘tactics’ of the game by now.
But sory that was never a red card. again as I said if it happend the other way round you would agree. And again if it was a Wolves or a WBA player that got sent off for that you would have a very differant view.
All in all a good result. And a good game. I hope Arsenal win the league to be honest. (considering LFC won’t!)
TW // August 16, 2010 at 2:39 pm
@Frank
By recalling Freeman’s and Cesc’s examples I just wanted to say that there’s no obvious distinction between “terrible pain+broken leg” and “no fracture+no pain at all”. Sometimes a player can feel pain and have no grave injury, other times the adrenaline makes the footballer play and feel nothing in spite of broken bones.
And I was just referring to Koscielny’s behaviour (issue raised by yourself), not Cole’s tackle. From the look of it, it was obvious everybody (including the player and physio) initially suspected broken leg. He was taken off the field on the stretcher, probably scanned during the break, had his leg frozen and came back after 20 minutes, not 10 seconds. For me there was no simulating at all and I was disgusted with fans booing him all through the second half. It’s like “you’d better be broken or be booed”. Though I must admit it’s still better than the Potters’ mob – “you’re broken? fuck it, we’ll boo you anyway”.
As for the card, I’ll stand by my opinion and respectfully disagree.
PS Eboue never dives!
)
frank // August 16, 2010 at 2:46 pm
By the way – Wenger ‘didnt see the incident’! Says a lot really. As he is the first to criticise a bad challenge on one of his team. And if he sais he didnt see the incident, its usually an Arsenal sending off. .
This is curious to say the least, considering that the away dug out at Anfield is just a couple of yard from that corner line.. and if Wenger was watching the game it should of been in plain view! Anyway. Sory foe ‘banging on’ about it. I promise i’ll stop now.
Good luck with youre season.
frank // August 16, 2010 at 2:48 pm
Ai. we’ll respectfully agree to diagree. Good shout.
Please keep those terrible Man U people from the 19th title!! And those horrible Chelsea people as well. Up the Arsenal I say! (unless a highly unlikely outcome comes, and it’s LFC v Arsenal for the title..!)
TW // August 16, 2010 at 2:53 pm
@frank
When you watch the pitch from close distance, you don’t always follow the ball, do you? Especially when it’s in the corner, not in potential goalscoring moment. He could just be looking away, for example to watch another player’s off the ball movement. Really, this time I don’t think it was Arsene’s typical “didnotsee” situation
Good luck with yours, Woy’s a decent lad and I hope he does good job at LFC.
Arjen Robben // August 16, 2010 at 2:57 pm
My leg broke just watching that tackle. Oh the humanity!
jones // August 16, 2010 at 3:23 pm
Never a red. League 1 down that would just about been seen as a foul. Not to mention a card. In the League of Wales that would have been seen as a bloody good challenge, and activly encouraged!!
Deraj // August 16, 2010 at 5:08 pm
Being a Yank with no rooting interest in this situation (other than rooting for good soccer), I don’t think a red was warranted here. Sure it was a hard challenge, but it was not reckless and he was clearly going for the ball.
Mr. Chopper // August 16, 2010 at 7:31 pm
I think it was the other leg “scissoring” round the back that made the red. And the screaming. Maybe it was karma, seeing as Cattermole should have had two reds.
Coolface // August 16, 2010 at 8:13 pm
Same old Arsenal
Always cheating.
Ovie // August 16, 2010 at 8:20 pm
Certainly looks like a red from where the ref is standing. Comes in with both legs and wraps around Koscielny’s leg. LOOKS wreckless, whether it was or not…
Bokolis // August 16, 2010 at 8:39 pm
Seeing the sideline view, the red was a little harsh, but not entirely uncalled for. Given the low probablility of winning the ball from that position, that Cole took so much skin from the challenge indicates that he was looking for it.
However, the camera view from the referee’s angle shows that the ref couldn’t have seen much else than an embellishment. The ref deserves a ban for reacting to the reactions…cunt
The fucker that schedules big 4 matches before the bank holiday should get the red card.
Jake // August 16, 2010 at 8:52 pm
Scholes, Fletcher and Rooney have done worse tackles in this match, and yet none of them have gotten a straight red. The attitude towards Scholes’s tackling from refs and pundits alike is disgusting. He’s been a professional for 20 years, yet whenever he launches into a dangerous tackle, the only response is a ticking off from the ref and Martin Tyler chortling “Typical Scholes tackle that” with Andy Gray replying “Ach, you’re right there, ye cannae teach an old dog new tricks.”
Fiel // August 18, 2010 at 9:03 pm
The Laws state: if a player endangers the safety of his opponent, it must be sanctioned as serious foul play. A tackle that late which removes the foot after missing the ball is dangerous to anyone’s knees let alone wherever he made contact.
This English idea that one is a pariah for diving but an honourable player when one goes in with complete disregard for an opponents ability to walk after the match is generally seen as a joke in parts (not where I am from mind you) where football is a game of skill.
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