Basketball team find subtle way to offend their hosts
Spain (the country whose national manager referred to Thierry Henry as a ‘black shit’, whose fans greeted the England team with monkey chants and whose Formula One supporters found their own special way of welcoming Lewis Hamilton) have enhanced their reputation as world leaders in the field of racism by making ’slit-eyed’ gestures prior to participating in the Beijing basketball tournament.
Clearly, Spanish marketing executives believe the best way to promote good and services is through overt discrimination, as the snap above is actually part of an advertisement for a courier company. The posed faux-pas enjoyed a full-page in Spanish sport daily Marca, and according to The Guardian, no one involved in the advert believed it to be offensive, and they did not consider it inappropriate in light of their bid for the Olympiad in 2016 or 2020.
535 responses so far
1 botella // Aug 11, 2008 at 9:44 am
Hi Ryan Bailey, you are an autentic stupid. You can´t say Spain is a racist country because this comment is realy false.
2 JJ // Aug 11, 2008 at 10:58 am
Is this really a surprise to anyone who has visited Spain? The country is full of ignorant, racist pricks who think very highly about their shithole of a country and culture. Botella is a prime example of this, the picture is perfectly normal to him. No harm done right? Monkey chants during our game in Spain was a funny joke right? Bloody wankers still living in the stone age.
3 el tel // Aug 11, 2008 at 12:12 pm
Bottella,
Estoy en acuerdo. The Chinese are one of the most racist societies in the world. The call us Gueay lo, which means round eyes. I found this on the site of one of the UK’s most racist websites run by black racists, the most famous of which is the owner of the site, and multi millioner from poncing off white people,
What the racist Wooley does is to find anything controvercial involving race and then stick it up to show that all whites are racists.
I read El Pais every day and there has been nothing in any of the last editions including the one I bought today so it is possible that this is a scam by Wooley or some other black racists.
All info to me El Tel @ asesinato1979@yahoo.es.
4 el tel // Aug 11, 2008 at 12:19 pm
I forgot to post that you can find the racist Wooley on http://www.obv.org.uk. You will need a strong stomache, it is among the most vile anti jewish and white stuff you will ever see.
5 botella // Aug 11, 2008 at 1:07 pm
You couldn´t speak about a Country when you only know some people ….
The british supporters aren´t an angelical people but I will never say (all) the british people “living in the stone age”
6 guy // Aug 11, 2008 at 1:32 pm
OH NO, THEY MADE PRETENDED THEY HAD SLIT-EYES!?!?! THE HORROR!!!1!
my god, the English really are completely pussified aren’t they?
7 el tel // Aug 11, 2008 at 2:08 pm
botella,
Gracias.
8 Andrew // Aug 11, 2008 at 3:50 pm
“The country is full of ignorant, racist pricks who think very highly about their shithole of a country and culture.”
I’ll take “Irony” for $500, Alex.
9 Andrew // Aug 11, 2008 at 4:45 pm
only a moron wouldn’t think this was offensive
10 Lou // Aug 11, 2008 at 5:07 pm
There are racists in every country. The difference here is that most people in most countries seem to think it’s nothing to be proud of, and in fact will go out of their way to assert that they’re *not* racist. In Spain, OTOH, racism is apparently so acceptable it’s considered a marketing tool for a nationwide advertising campaign.
11 Justin // Aug 11, 2008 at 5:25 pm
“They call us Gueay lo, which means round eyes.”
Wrong. It doesn’t mean round eyes, it actually means “white ghost,” which isn’t much better, but Lou brings up an excellent point: every country has racists, and I somehow doubt that the Chinese have ever run an ad that included that slang word.
The fact that nobody took issue with this ad through the entire publishing process is disturbing to me.
12 el tel // Aug 11, 2008 at 6:19 pm
There are reasons for everything and one of the reasons for the supposed racism of Spain is that the country has has a racial shock over the last few years with a huge amount of immigration.
If people go to http://www.searchlightmagazine.com and put terry fitzpatrick into archive they will see two articles which ,I hope, will start to enlighten people as to how Spain has changed in a very few years.
All societies, at some point in time, are subject shock and that is true of those regarded by the left as being imperial.
What I think is important is the fact that the vast majority of those currently trying to get a living for themselves and their families had nothing to do with the empires that they are being blamed for.
Sorry for being a bit political but if we don,t deal with the crap coming out of the racists of whichever colour we are going to be in shit.
As we are on the subject, why is Barca in such a state and whay is Celtic not far off?
13 Eastwood // Aug 11, 2008 at 6:47 pm
Hey Spain, anyone can make a mistake. Just try to be a little bit more concilliatory about it when found out
14 Orange Gaijin // Aug 11, 2008 at 10:08 pm
Bottella,
Gueay lo means Ghost. I forget the word for blks but translation means blk ghost. You right the Chinese have derogatory words for anyone non Chinese.
15 Julio P.G // Aug 11, 2008 at 10:14 pm
¿Nadie ha comentado este artículo?
16 Luis // Aug 11, 2008 at 10:33 pm
No one in Spain would consider this gesture as offensive as no one does such a gesture in Spain with an offensive intention!!
It is just a not-at-all-racist-neither-having-nothing-to-do-with-racialism children’s joke (in Spain, Children usually do that gesture pretending to be Chinese, and that’s what the players were trying to imitate). No one, and I repeat, no one would use such a sympathetic gesture to offend any Chinese people in Spain, as no one considers it as offensive.
17 Orange Gaijin // Aug 11, 2008 at 10:46 pm
C’mon…..The Spanish fans called the blk players “N” and tossed bananas on to the pitch during games and they didn’t see that wasn’t offensive too? C’mon…..
18 verbal // Aug 11, 2008 at 11:18 pm
wow. lol..wow
19 missyhelly // Aug 11, 2008 at 11:26 pm
Luis, are you Chinese or Asian decent? How do you know no one considers it offensive in Spain? Have you discussed this with your Asian friends? Did they tell you they find the gesture non-offensive? Just cause children make the gesture when depicting Chinese does not make it alright. I’m Korean Canadian, and I find the gesture very offensive. I’m very upset with this ad. Just cause you and your friends (and your country as you mentioned) find this non-offensive does not make not racist. I find your comment as offensive as the ad.
20 RedbyDawn // Aug 12, 2008 at 1:54 am
Quit moaning you fucking round eye cunts…
21 Michelle // Aug 12, 2008 at 3:46 am
I just saw Justin’s remark only after writing this but he’s probably the most sensible of you lot.
First off, “gwai lo” has a literal translation of ghost/spirit man. This doesn’t necessarily mean it’s any better but when you want to start an argument or make a point, you should get your facts right.
It’s also a very juvenile argument to rattle off the faults of other countries and point blame. If a man was tried for murder and his lawyer said “So? Terrorists kill more people, they’re much worst off”. This statement may indeed be correct but it doesn’t discount the actions of the defendent, does it?
22 maddy // Aug 12, 2008 at 4:03 am
I can’t even believe that this was actually published…!!! I’m sure there was no intent of malice (unless these guys are idiots) but the truth of the matter is pure ignorance!! Wow, I guess there aren’t very many asians in Spain, and I’m not about to think that all Spanish people are racist, but there is definitely something wrong to have had that ad being printed and for no one to think that maybe it’s just a tiny bit inappropriate…..OR A LOT!
23 Daikrieg // Aug 12, 2008 at 11:41 am
I am ASTONISHED, as a Spaniard, watching this pile of guys calling us everything they can imagine (idiots, morons, etc.) only for a picture with NO RACIST MEANING AT ALL!! Maybe in your historical foreign-friendly culture () this is racism, but this give you no authority to insult us.
I remember you that, for example, in Spain, showing your index and middle finger isn´t considered insulting at all… It´s just “two”
Swearing is easy. Much more than understanding…
24 USA // Aug 12, 2008 at 1:22 pm
Daikrieg,
Using your words, I am ASTONISHED as an American that you and other defenders of the picture would ever deem it absent of racism and then chide those who are actually offended by it. Who do you think YOU are? I think you and other Spaniards who have defended the picture have illustrated the fact that Spain has been a homogeneous society for such a long time under Franco that you don’t even realize when you are being racist.
25 Yao Ming // Aug 12, 2008 at 3:06 pm
Dumb Mexicans/Spaniard Aliens need to quit wasting our government taxes in America, and go back to Spain/Mexico where they belong. They’re on every street corner begging for a job to mow our lawns or clean our cars (they lower our real estate value by hanging around like roaches). Do you guys consider this a racist comment or just poking fun?
26 helge // Aug 12, 2008 at 3:31 pm
A bloke had to take care of a black baby. a woman comes, checks him and says ‘you need to change him’.
the guy responds: ‘i know but there are no white ones left.’
this was a popular sitcom that i saw last spring in a main Spanish TV channel - just like they say: racism in Spain is not an issue.
27 FCBarca // Aug 12, 2008 at 3:52 pm
Yep, pretty racist…Let’s not spin it.
But, then again, it doesn’t surprise me…Racism IS a problem in Spain…Look no further than La Liga players that have to endure monkey chants at chants…How many other countries does that go on in?…The US is pretty racist but I doubt you’d find that at any kind of sporting event…The UK has it’s equal share of racism but monkey chants would be hard to uncover
Prejudice is prejudice, let’s not spin it
28 pb // Aug 12, 2008 at 3:59 pm
Who cares? Nothing of importance has ever come out of Spain. They and their sad little jokes are insignificant. Name 1 internationally recognized brand or product of significance that’s come out of Spain. Can you think of a mobile company, software, automobile, innovation in sport, or anything?
By the way, as of 8/12, two of the top countries on the Olympic medal count are slant-eyed nations: China has 20 medals, and South Korea has 12.
How many does Spain have? 2.
Pathetic.
29 diego // Aug 12, 2008 at 4:11 pm
Well, Chinese folks do have slanted eyes.
30 diego // Aug 12, 2008 at 4:14 pm
Chinese, Japanese, dirty knees, look at these!
31 Franco // Aug 12, 2008 at 4:16 pm
Woah - the depth and extent of the ignorance of the Spaniards are appalling. It’s incredible that they do not see this ad as a form of racist taunting. The whole country is like a sociopath who enjoys hurting others and always blames the victims.
32 Truth // Aug 12, 2008 at 4:26 pm
the French have saying… “when Spaniards talk, it’s like diaherra”… well… this picture is worth a thousand words…
33 Dora // Aug 12, 2008 at 4:39 pm
Diego, what the hell are you doing on the Internet? Some lemurs are in stuck in a swamp, hurry up and do you your job you prick.
34 Comorl? // Aug 12, 2008 at 5:25 pm
Me parece bastante estúpido lo que se comenta por aqui, la verdad… No veo qué acto racista se puede sacar de esa imagen. Hacen un gesto rasgando los ojos en imitación a los chinos, sí, ¿y? ¿No tienen ojos rasgados los chinos acaso? ¿Es falso? Y de hecho, ¿es que acaso es malo? O_o No se usa como un insulto, y la verdad, veo más racista y discriminatorio a la gente que puede pensar eso de un gesto tan absurdo. Es como pensar que decir que un afroamericano es negro es algo negativo. Pues no, no lo es.
Y que dejen de intentar difamar sobre España por favor. Lo que les pasa es que tienen envidia, porque últimamente llevamos una racha de victorias bastante fuerte ;D
35 Daikrieg // Aug 12, 2008 at 5:47 pm
@USA:
First of all, I am only chiding those who call us assholes, morons, stoneageds pricks, etc. just because they have seen a picture, I put my life in this, made with the best of the intentions, like a way of saying “Hey! We´re chinese too! We´re going to China!” or wathever. You americans are obsessed with the politically correct, but still keep raising walls by the customs, invading other countries, and letting people die in the street because they don´t have a medical insurance. Generalising, as you like.
Second, I was born after Franco died, raised in a liberal family, living in an immigrant-filled neighbourhood, and I have some foreign friends, so believe me when I tell you that, in Spain, remarking other people´s differences “lovingly” is not seen as racism.
Example: a black guy is called by his friends “negro” (the black guy, or whatever you say), a moor called “moro”, and so on is seen as a piece of affect. Obviously, calling that people “f*king black guy” and similar is racism, but, in Spanish, you have to be very careful, not what you say with, but HOW do you say it.
And, finishing, what takes me out of my mind is the big bunch of assholes (americans, I bet) who still think that we are mexicans who wear “sombreros” (sic.), drink tequila and eat burritos. And THEY call us racists. Don´t make me laugh.
36 clos // Aug 12, 2008 at 5:49 pm
Do you see this…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBFB26-lAck
When you makes jokes it´s not racism…
When make the rest of the people yes…
Pathetic
Remember You Create the Modern Slavery…
In one day Cromwell kills more people that the Spanish Inquisition in Five Centurys…
37 a7up2 // Aug 12, 2008 at 6:03 pm
The problem is many people are analyzing this incident based on what is acceptable in the US or UK and are applying those norms upon the Spanish.
Firstly, the intent behind the gesture was not hurtful. I think Americans and the British have a bit of complex about diversity—it’s great and all, just as long as we ignore it. The great thing about the U.S. for example is that everyone is allowed to be white. And although I say that somewhat ironically, that is still an amazing thing which allows anyone to have a place in this society. On the flipside, it’s as if recognizing someone’s difference whether in looks, culture, accent or language has become taboo, as if that difference were something bad that we better pretend doesn’t exist. I think its great and cause for celebration that people around the world are different, and I also think its fine to make light hearted jokes about these differences. That is all the Spanish national team was doing. They were calling attention to the fact that they were going somewhere where the people were really really different. They were celebrating it and joking about it. The gesture would only be cause for offence if there was malicious intention behind it, or if having the eye’s of an Asian were something to be ashamed of. Neither is the case. In Spain, and many other countries, there is no such hangup in regard to other people’s differences.
I think this photo from the world cup in Korea and Japan illustrates this point. Either Ronaldo is a racist or the Japanese or Koreans host is a mean teethmakerfunnerofs. http://www.basicmedia.co.uk/doteu/worldcup/2006/06 …
Spain is not perfect. Nowhere is. But the Spanish (and Catalans, and Basques, and Gallegos), in their complete disregard of political correctness, live in one of the most tolerant places on earth. Yes, racism exists, and maybe Spaniards are too tolerant of that racism, but there is very big difference between the hurtful words that some (fascist) fans in Zaragoza yell at a black player, and the general political incorrectness that is part of Spanish life, most of which is light hearted. Much of the non-PC talk in Spain could be offensive, but the source of much of that talk is not maliciousness, but a certain naiveté that stems from Spain’s relative lack of diversity (although that is changing). Luis Argones was out of line for his comments about Henry, someone of his stature should know better. However, I suggest you ask Samuel Eto’o (or Google) what he thinks about the distinction between hurtful words and merely politically incorrect ones. (note: Eto’o is a Cameroonian striker who spoke out on behalf of Argones following his comments about Henry. He also left the field because of the racist chants in Zaragoza).
I think in the US and UK, there is far too great a focus on superficial racism and that the real injustices inflicted upon the helpless in society are ignored. One example (and there are many) is US immigration law which is draconian compared to the Spanish. Additionally, there is no popular movement in Spain to build a wall to keep immigrants out of the country and if sick, an illegal immigrant in Spain will receive the best possible healthcare. Americans in the US cannot even say the same.
Spain is a great place, and I can’t help take of offence to the unwarranted criticism against it. But what annoys me even more is the PC fascism we see more and more of. It is true that Spain is not as PC as the US, but it is a much more equitable and tolerant society.
38 John // Aug 12, 2008 at 6:43 pm
Tactics to distract the Spanish team… What you see in that photo is not racism, is simply traying to be sympathetic with the Chinese people. Spaniards are probably the people who have mixed and married with more races than any other group in world history. Racism will be to exterminate 99% of the Native Americans in the United States, The Opium War against China (England trying to force the Chinese to consume opium). To esterilize Native American, Mexican, French Catholic and mentally retarded women in a “scientific” program known in England and the United States as Eugenics up to the last century, or to look the other way when African Americans died in situations such as Katrina in New Orleans.
39 Paul // Aug 12, 2008 at 7:02 pm
The news was published in UK press. So some UK press thinks chinese people should be angry for this. Let’s wait what the chinese have to say, I don’t think spaniards have to apologise if the chinese don’t get offended.
The main point is I don’t think this is racism, I don’t even consider it unfortunate.
I’ve lived and worked in the US for 2 years, UK (5 years) and Spain (2 years). I don’t think americans and britons can teach lessons about racism to spaniards. I’ve seen more, much more racist gestures in those countries than in Spain.
In fact, in Spain people really makes you feel welcome, some of my coworkers were from far east and I swear they were well treated, like me.
No one who has lived in Spain would think this picture is racism.
40 Schwein // Aug 12, 2008 at 7:04 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBFB26-lAck
So, OWNED?
Nope, just (childish? clumsy?) fun, but harmless.
Anyway, +1000 to a7up2 analysis.
Read it if you want to overcome such biased prejudices, arisen for sure from a History (yours) way more tarnished by racist issues. And i’m not blaming anyone but keeping things clear.
By the way, i find this article quite irresponsible.
41 Lucas // Aug 12, 2008 at 7:18 pm
You can mock at someone who is too short or has bad eye-sight, or has a broken leg… that is, you can only mock at things that are bad, so if you believe these players are mocking at the Chinese, it’s because you believe that having slit eyers is bad, so the only racist is YOU, not the Spanish team.
42 Yao Ming // Aug 12, 2008 at 7:31 pm
I guess the Chinese Women’s basketball team should have all worn walmart tshirts and shorts that were two sizes too small with fake guts (stomachs) hanging out, and put on mustaches, so they could “mock” hispanic women. That wouldn’t be racist unless you actually think this is a bad thing. That makes a lot of sense Lucas.
43 Marcos // Aug 12, 2008 at 7:31 pm
Is everyone mad? Does anyone really thinks this is racism? You probably have no idea about how mixed the spanish blood is, please don´t project all your anglo-saxon complexes, fears and -really- stupidity on us. There are other ways to analyse reality than your, corseted, hypocrital and puritan society, where racism is really a problem. How many million inmigrants have come to Spain in the last years? Four (10% of the countries´population). Spain is the country in the world with the fastest growing rate of inmigrants in the last years. How many integration problems do we have compared to the UK or the USA? Please we understand that is difficult to deal with cultural diversity but don´t blame it on us if you actually do it that poorly.
44 Lucas // Aug 12, 2008 at 7:37 pm
Why do people think that having slit eyes is something you can mock at? They are perhaps… racist?
45 a. // Aug 12, 2008 at 7:42 pm
Daikreig - I can’t believe you just used the whole “I have Asian friends” as a defense. Just because you have a friend who happens to be black does not justify you saying the word “nigger.” Even if my best friend were to make this gesture in genuine jest, I would be extremely offended and probably would want to punch her in the face.
I don’t care if the ad had no intention to offend. The fact is, it did. Maybe in the so-called progressive and “tolerant” Spain, this type of bullshit is acceptable, but for the people they mocked or “simulated,” it isn’t. It makes us want to punch the Spanish basketball team, the advertisers who pitched the idea, and anyone who defends it, in the face.
46 USA // Aug 12, 2008 at 7:44 pm
Daikrieg,
“And, finishing, what takes me out of my mind is the big bunch of assholes (americans, I bet) who still think that we are mexicans who wear “sombreros” (sic.), drink tequila and eat burritos.”
OK, let’s analyze this statement, shall we? First off, for someone who is supposedly against generalizing other countries/cultures, you do a pretty good job of doing the same about Americans.
As you were kind enough to give me a quick overview of your background, I will do the same. I was born in America, went to an Ivy League college and business school and have traveled extensively, including one month in Spain. I have friends of many cultures and nationalities and consider myself fairly open-minded. You can hardly call me an “ugly american”.
What you wrote in that last paragraph about what annoys you about “americans’” supposed perception of spaniards is EXACTLY why the slanted eye gesture, while not apparently offensive to Spaniards, IS absolutely offensive to Asians. Let me ask you something, since you mentioned that being associated with sombreros and tequila offend you as a Spaniard, let’s say the Olympics were being held in Madrid and the american basketball team, in an attempt to say “look we are Spanish” published a picture of themselves wearing sombreros and holding tequila bottles in one hand and burritos in the other, would you be offended? This wouldn’t even be racist as much as it is ignorant, but I bet it would irk you. What if the Americans’ defense was, oh we do this all the time in the US and it is not offensive at all. Would that change the way you felt? I doubt it.
The point is, that gesture IS offensive to Asians, whether it has become the norm in Spain or not. Once again, it is the target of the gesture that has the right to determine whether they are offended by it or not; not the provider of the gesture.
Let me ask you one last thing. If the Olympics were in Africa, would the Spanish team paint their faces black and wear afros and publish that picture in their newspaper? I think not.
47 USA // Aug 12, 2008 at 7:54 pm
Daikrieg,
No one disputes that racism exists in virtually all countries. Every culture and country has their own issues to deal with. I think what is shocking to many non-Spaniards is that this image was allowed to be printed in the most popular mainstream newspaper in the country. It’s one thing to have closet racists or racism in special interest publications, quite another to have it in such a prestigious Spanish publication. I dare say most editors at such a paper would have had a problem printing that image.
Once again, just because it is acceptable amongst Spaniards to make that gesture does not make it unoffensive to Asians. The pulling back of the eyes has its historic roots in mockery in many Western countries; it is not received just as an innocent gesture I assure you.
48 Lucas // Aug 12, 2008 at 7:56 pm
“Let’s say the american basketball team, in an attempt to say “look we are Spanish” published a picture of themselves wearing sombreros and holding tequila bottles in one hand and burritos in the other, would you be offended?”
Only immature people would feel offended. Others would laugh, confronted with a silly, naive mascherade.
49 USA // Aug 12, 2008 at 8:17 pm
Lucas,
Are you from Spain? If not, you are hardly qualified to say who should or should not be offended. I’ll wait for a Spaniard’s answer.
50 Arturo // Aug 12, 2008 at 8:20 pm
I find everything complete nonsense. Anyway, I can understand that people with a very recent historical background of racism can not understand what only means a simple joke with no racist meaning at all. In Spain this gesture is only a child’s joke and no offense at all. I am afraid the british journalist, and all those backing him, have a very different scale of values compared to the spanish sense of humour. No offense, please!
51 USA // Aug 12, 2008 at 8:21 pm
“You can mock at someone who is too short or has bad eye-sight, or has a broken leg… that is, you can only mock at things that are bad, so if you believe these players are mocking at the Chinese, it’s because you believe that having slit eyers is bad, so the only racist is YOU, not the Spanish team.”
Well, Lucas, that’s actually the point. That slit eye gesture has a long history of making a mockery of Asian people in Western countries. It IS viewed and used in a negative light in many Western countries. Again, that is exactly the point.
52 USA // Aug 12, 2008 at 8:23 pm
Arturo,
Tell me, what exactly is the “child’s joke”? What’s funny about this “child’s joke”? Please elaborate in what way it is used as a child in Spain.
53 nick // Aug 12, 2008 at 8:24 pm
a few observations:
1 - what the spanish team did is probably offensive to some or many chinese people, to others it’s not
2 - clearly other countries, namely the US and UK, are much more sensitive to issues of political correctness than Spain (this is not a value judgement, merely an observation)
3 - the fact that all cultures, to one degree or another, are intollerant of other cultures does not make it okay
4 - we need to find a balance between being able to talk about and point out our differences without being so damn sensitive about them, this was clearly in good fun and the spanish team was not trying to offend anyone, people need to stop being so sensitive, others need to learn how to have a real sense of humor that doesn’t rely so heavily on the same played out stereotypes.
54 Bob // Aug 12, 2008 at 9:22 pm
This was not done by white americans so how can it be considered recist? Everyone in the world knows that only the whites are racists
55 fonzie // Aug 12, 2008 at 9:27 pm
Right just a couple of things to add my view to this issue.
1st. I do not thing the spanish basketball team meant to be racist in any way, shape or form.
However, I understand why some people may think that this attitude is racist or can lead to racism, and in my opinion is innapropiate as it can be interpreted in the wrong way by Chinese.
2nd Spaniards should apologise. They should make a statement and simply say that by pulling the skin on the sides of their eyes they didn’t mean to upset anyone. They should say that this gesture didn’t have any connotations and that they understand that it could be interpreted the wrong way elsewhere.
And this issue would be sorted.
But the spaniards are normally too slow to say sorry. They will waste too much time and efforts trying to explain the fact that this gesture may not be racist in their country, instead of saying sorry and turn the page over.
3rd. In defense of what someone has mentioned in previous posts, this gesture is something that children do when they are litte. I remember a song we used to sing when we were kids and that we would sing pulling our eyes sideways. The song said something like “chinito tu, chinito yo”, which just means “you are chinese, i am chinese”. It is obvious, that no racism is implied by this, but as I said before, what spaniards fail to recognise and consider is that elsewhere this can be interpreted as racist and therefore is politically incorrect.
4th. I believe the spanish society is racist. I do agree with the fact that there is some sort of racism in any country, but the monkey chants in football or even basketball games in Spain happen to often to ignore. However, no one in Spain has taking radical measures to tackle this issue. Two seasons ago, Etoo a Barcelona football player, threatened the referee to abandon a game in Zaragoza in which he was constantly racially abused by home fans. Yet, he was the most critised one after the incident, with many fans and pundits blaming him for what happened and accusing him of making things worse. These are the kind of attitudes that show what some spaniards are made of.
5th. I totally disagree with Marcos, who says all these nice words about spaniards’ mixed blood etc etc. Spain’s democracy is only 40 years old. Yes, they have been getting a high percentage of immigration over the last few years, yes it might be the country with the fastest growing rate of immigrants, but the situation in Spain is no different to that of England with Pakistanis and Indians, Germany with Turks or France with north africans, 30 years ago!!! Spain is getting now what the majority of Europe got 30 or 40 years earlier. And they are not coping very well with it because the economic situation is not as good as it was for some of the above countries when they received the high amount of immigrants. In that sense, Spain is well behind many countries in Europe. Its democracy is still so young that behaviours and mannerisms like the ones we are just analysing, seem normal for a population that is not used to diversity and political correctness. And many years will have to go pass, until these kind of behaviours are corrected and assimilated by the majority of the population.
Having said that, I still believe the gesture was innocent and non-malicious, but…where the heck is the apology????
Come on Spaniards, saying sorry is not that hard…
56 Jerry // Aug 12, 2008 at 9:33 pm
Simple Solution, let the Chinese eliminate Spain (not talking about basketball) while they’re in Beijing.
57 Lucas // Aug 12, 2008 at 9:53 pm
Why do people think that having slit eyes is something you can mock at? They are perhaps… racist?
The more you try to explain yourselves, the more racist you prove to be.
Having slit eyes is not a bad thing, why can’t you accept that?
58 Lucas // Aug 12, 2008 at 10:00 pm
By the way, Spain has had an ethnic minority before any other European nation: the gypsies.
59 Sil // Aug 12, 2008 at 10:29 pm
Wait.. the English are calling the Spanish racist??? hmmm, there’s a word for that.. Oh, yes STUPID!!!!! Only two countries care about what England has to say.. UK and USA. The rest of the world really doesn’t care for the modern day neo-nazis that they both are!
60 Sil // Aug 12, 2008 at 10:38 pm
One more thing.. shouldn’t you british people be worrying about the fact that you have been told that you have a lack of personal hygiene instead of what Spain does…
I quote.. “It’s not bad for a country that has no swimming pools and very little soap.”
Yes, that was about Britain!!!
61 naysayer47 // Aug 12, 2008 at 10:42 pm
I’m not sure how many Chinese read The Spoiler, but as a Chinese, I will say this, the ad is insulting and insensitive.
Not that I am unhappy with my eyes (I like my eyes), but you just go around making fun of others’ physical features. It’s just not done.
I’m sure there are a lot of great and wonderful people in Spain (I have lovely Spanish and Morrocan friends in Madrid), so let’s not trash the whole country for the errors of a bunch of morons.
62 Gonzalo // Aug 12, 2008 at 10:49 pm
If you don´t understand our sense of humour and if you think we are an underdeveloped, racist and disgusting country PLEASE: stop coming partying and getting drunk to Mallorca, Barcelona, Benidorm, etc…
63 USA // Aug 12, 2008 at 10:55 pm
LMAO. Who would want to go to Spain and “get drunk to Mallorca, Barcelona, Benidorm, etc…”
Racist pricks.
64 miguelito // Aug 12, 2008 at 10:59 pm
Look, all of you who think that Spain is racist: if you are English, let me tell you that in the entire Europe we think that enought is enought. We are tired to see how alcoholics and drunk (not only occasionaly) English people come to our cities to destroy ornaments in our streets, to throw up in the middle of our walksides, fighting in our pubs, discos, and so on. England is a places ruled by very competent and inteligent people, but a large amount of persons are just simple minds with no idea about what it is out of their borders. They just want sun, beach, beers, and a bit of sex (wich is good but as they use to be drunk, they can’t keep sexual contact after 5 senconds in a row, falling sleept inmediately).
You say that Spanish are intolerant, then you say that French are chouvinist, Germans squared-head minds, Italians and Greeks darkskin animals and nordic people vikings…well, and what about you? I apologize for the basket AD. But when are you to apologize for all the burden that you use to bring with you when, for example, you came to our cities to follow your fooball team in any European championship? I don’t want Mr.Brown, Blair, Major or Thatcher’s apologize. I want English drunk and violent average hooligan’s apologize. Do you get it?
Next time that in any of your TV channels, news papers or tourist package we see a man in disguise as a Torero, as a French lover or Italina spagueti-eater, we will take it as a national offence.
Please, leave Victorian hypocrisy out for a while!! You are not on the top. One thing is what your Government do by law (wich is great because respects all minorities, skin colours, etc. in universities, in labour laws, etc. and other thing is what many not educated English do (they are even racist against their brothers or cousins such as Irish or Scotish).
65 USA // Aug 12, 2008 at 10:59 pm
Ok, the last person that posted as “USA” is not me (the one who originally posed questions to Daikrieg).
But I do have to ask Gonzalo, if you call this your “sense of humor”, who exactly are you laughing at and at whose expense?
66 USA // Aug 12, 2008 at 11:00 pm
Spain is very unsportsman-like.
But after this, who would want Spain to host any major sports events…
67 Nixcal // Aug 12, 2008 at 11:04 pm
So I guess that posing with a kilt is racist agains Scottish, painting your face in black is racism against negros… and dancing flamenco is racism against gypsies.
Do you guys have any idea what racism means? Check a dictionary, first, and get a life, secondly.
68 Lucas // Aug 12, 2008 at 11:08 pm
This is like the word ‘Jew’. If you find it aggressive, it’s because you are an anti-semite yourself. If you find the slit-eye gesture aggressive, then you are a racist.
I feel sympathy for those ethnic minorities. With all these PC campaigns, the all-mighty anglo-saxon press is making sure that racism will remain a part of the western culture: “Come on, don’t mock at them. We all know they are inferior, just don’t put the stress on it.”
69 ksw // Aug 12, 2008 at 11:13 pm
It’s interesting to read how Spaniards are defending this, that this is not offensive. It may not have been done intentionally to offend anyone, but it is clearly in poor taste, and reeks of ignorance. What if the Olympics were in Africa - would they press their noses down, and stick out their lips?
70 Cheryl // Aug 12, 2008 at 11:19 pm
I second pb, nothing of any interest has come out of Spain, let’s all just hope no-one votes for them to hold the Olympics 2016, 2020, 20-never.
71 Lucas=Idiot // Aug 12, 2008 at 11:20 pm
Your logic, along with others who do not see the obvious inappropriateness of that picture, is so skewed it’s pointless to even argue with you. I’d have a battle of wits with you but clearly you are unarmed.
72 Cheryl // Aug 12, 2008 at 11:22 pm
Oh and @ Miguelito…what has drunk English people trashing your ‘ornaments’ got to do with the fact that sportsmen representing your country are racist? Stay on track.
73 Lucas // Aug 12, 2008 at 11:24 pm
Let’s think about the reverse situation: would you find it offensive if the Chinese made the western-eye gesture? Your first thought would be “that’s an aggression”? No, you would simply think “what a silly naive harmless thing”.
It’s sad to see so many people full of negative prejudices.
74 Francisco // Aug 12, 2008 at 11:24 pm
OK. Let’s act as adults. Just for the record: I’m a Spaniard and I tend to agree with what Fonzie said, more than with other comments.
I think our basket team just intended to make a funny, sympathetic gesture. But it was a naive, awkward thing to do and if it has come across as racist, an apology/explanation should be given. That seems to be the case according to some of the posts here: naysayer47’s for example, with which I also agree and for which, as a Spaniard, thank him.
Just symbolically, I do apologize to chinese and Asian people, again as a Spaniard.
As for the other issues mentioned in the posts (monkey chants and so on) I must say I felt terribly ashamed when they happened.
In case someone is interested I don’t think Spain is especially racist (I travel frequently to Britain, Germany and other European countries and I’ve spent a couple of months in both US and China) but there is racism and any racist action is equally abominable.
75 USA // Aug 12, 2008 at 11:28 pm
This is the “real” USA (you’ll know the difference because I don’t use personal attacks or aggressive language).
Let me try and explain this simply. For those of you who don’t understand why this might be offensive to Asians, I would ask you to think about what stereotypes/representations of your ethnic group really bother or anger you. Whatever that may be, pretend that a high profile person/group said, acted or otherwise expressed and propagated this stereotype in a major media outlet on an international stage and then refused to acknowledge any potential offense it may have caused.
I’ll make it easy for you; if you’re black, imagine the team in blackface and afros in McDonalds uniforms, if your Mexican, imagine them dressed as peasant field workers and covered in dirt; if you’re Native American, imagine them with headfeathers, an axe and a bottle of booze; if you’re Arab, imagine them in headscarves with AK-47s. The point is that for each ethnic group, negative physical, social and/or economic stereotypes exist. For some ethnic groups the negative stereotypes are physical (i.e. Asian eyes, Black skin/lips), for some they are economic (i.e. Blacks and Hispanics as menial workers and living in the ghetto) and for some they are social (i.e. Asians as perpetual foreigners and passive, Native American drunks, Arab terrorists). For Asians, the negative stereotypes that irk the most are physical and social. For other ethnic groups, the most annoying stereotypes may be social or economic (i.e. Native Americans as alcoholics, Hispanics as busboys).
Long story short, whether Spaniards want to admit it or not, making the slanty eye gesture is highly offensive to Asians and has a rich history of mockery. I’m only sorry that you refuse to acknowledge that. Perhaps it’s your Spanish “machismo” (I hope you get the irony in that statement).
The point is is that it’s apples and oranges to compare the different stereotypes that would
If you still do not understand why this might be offensive to Asians, you really are not trying to understand, but rather letting your “Spanish machismo” clutter your thoughts. I hope you see the
76 USA // Aug 12, 2008 at 11:34 pm
“So I guess that …painting your face in black is racism against negros”
Hate to break it to you Nixcal, but I assure you that that IS offensive to blacks and I encourage you to go ahead and try that and see what happens. May I remind you that that is exactly what some Spaniards did to Lewis Hamilton at the Spanish Grand Prix and I’m know that was not received very well by the black community.
77 Lucas // Aug 12, 2008 at 11:37 pm
USA, you are making again and again the same mistake. Being a terrorist is bad, being lazy or dirty is bad. What’s wrong about having slanty eyes? No matter how much you try, we do not share your racist prejudices.
78 Manuel Martinez // Aug 12, 2008 at 11:39 pm
I Live in Spain, and I conclude Spain is the most racist country in the world. Outsiders are treated as “inferior” and anyone who is not Spanish is considered “low”. This photograph shows a public sentiment that the chinese are inferior and not worthy of Spanish respect (which is limited to Spanish people). Spain has a horrible history of treating people badly, including being poor sports. The culture is one where only Spain is good, and is respected, only the Spanish are superior, much like a Hilter philosophy. Growing up in Spain, these things are taught as normal. Having traveled the world and then come back home to Spain, I see the disgrace my country has, and this photo makes it even more clear to the world. I’m ashamed, eventhough I love my Spain.
79 miguelito // Aug 12, 2008 at 11:40 pm
OH MY GOD!! Please, all English native speaker, CAN YOU UNDERSTAND THAT YOU ARE LOOKING AT THE WORLD ACCORDING TO A UNIQUE POINT OF VIEW AND THAT IT IS NOT NECESARY THE ONLY ONE?
I accept that there are racist in Spain, I accept that many Spanish people haven’t got any PC background (and that doesn’t justify their racist attitudes) and that emigration has been a great shock in our monolingual and mono-ethnic former society….ok? I accept, and I reckon, and really I apologize if someone feel offended by our attitudes.
But please, ALL OF YOU, stop having that kind of SUPERIORITY attitude when you talk about Spain. Most of you doesn’t care to know how rich is our culture. You just come to visit us for fun, for having a time in the beach and get drunk. You, who try to give us advise about how to behave, are the same people who doesn’t care if my land is the country with more cities under UNESCO recognition, even above Italy….you don’t care if we have been the best example about how a society overcome a dictatorship in just few years without any problem….you don’t care if you use my country as the Europena Florida (beaches, sex, drugs), …YOU DON’T CARE IF BY PUBLISHING THIS KIND OF NEWS (knowing that most of Spanish are NOT RACIST becouse most of you have been in my country as a tourist and you repeat again and again) YOU MAKE A BIG PAIN AND OPEN A BIG WOUND IN MY COUNTRY WHICH CAN AFFECT TO ANY SPANISH ASPIRATION AND ILUSION TO HOST ANY MAJOR SPORT IN THE FUTURE!!!
Maybe you think that we deserve it. Ok, maybe you are right (althought I don’t think so)…but believe me when I say that an important ammount of you (not all, obviously) are that kind of people who feel superior enough to give advise the rest of the world about how to live, how to breath, how to have sex, how to behave and so on, meanwhile your nations are ivading countries, killing people, etc. But your rotten societies (as rottens as mine) don’t care a damm just because most of young people are worry about Big Brother TV-show, or to use a knife to scare half of population of London, or what Paris Hilton is dressing…meanwhile their parents are working insulting Indians, Pakistanies, Mexicans, etc. or are drinking in a pub.
80 Lucas // Aug 12, 2008 at 11:43 pm
LOL. “Manuel Martinez”, you are as Spanish as sushi.
81 kimbal // Aug 12, 2008 at 11:43 pm
How arrogant! If I racially offended someone I would not think of them as being too sensitive but me being too ignorant. I would be the first to admit that I am not the most culturally cognizant person in the world but if someone told me that I had racially insulted them by “childish” antics, regardless, of how I felt about it, I would appologize and not try to create excuses. How arrogant a person must be to think nothing they do is wrong. It may have been an innocent thing to do, I doubt it, but everyone must own up to their actions. By advocating any actions such as these would only demonstrate insecurity in that you have to belittle an entire race, whom you feel is inferior, obviously, just to feel good about your own shortcomings. By the way, if you read the entire article the crowd, mostly composed of the Chinese People, Bood! Very Loudly! As far as I remember, the Chinese have been very, very, very, hospitable hosts to all countries except in this situation. What would your pride think of that. Would that be evidence enough to say that, yes the chinese found it offensive or will your arrogance try to advocate another reason why it was “ok”?
82 Manuel Martinez // Aug 12, 2008 at 11:46 pm
This is my point. I don’t share my fellow country viewpoint and I get punished.
83 Juan // Aug 12, 2008 at 11:49 pm
Spain stinks. Face it. Apologize.
84 USAsian // Aug 12, 2008 at 11:52 pm
FRANCISCO, it really doesn’t matter what your intentions were because in the end that picture is offensive. Seriously, if Spain won a gold medal in a sporting event and the headlines read “WETBACKS WIN!!!” how would you feel? I mean, the intention was to be funny/cute so you shouldn’t feel bad right? Clearly, I think most people would find that highly offensive.
Basically exploiting negative stereotypes of any race is insensitive and unnecessary. BTW, LUCAS, if you were adopted and your mom/sister was Chinese and you found her crying one day because a bunch of Spanish kids were doing the slant-eyed gesture at her, how would that make you feel?
85 USA // Aug 12, 2008 at 11:56 pm
Lucas, I’m sorry but it is you who are making the same mistake over and over again. What you are right about is that there is absolutely nothing wrong with having “slanted eyes”. Where you are wrong (and a bit naive I might add) is thinking that the slanted eye gesture has no symbolic meeting to many Asians around the world. It IS and has been used repeatedly throughout history as a derogatory expression towards Asians. There really is no gray area here.
It’s like the middle finger in the US. If I were to give you the middle finger in Spain, you probably wouldn’t care because you would say “it’s only a middle finger, what’s wrong with showing me your middle finger? There’s nothing wrong or bad with a middle finger”. If you were to give an American the middle finger, I’m pretty sure you’d get a more, shall we say, “aggressive” response, especially if you refused to acknowledge that you did it innocently and didn’t mean any offense. Would you keep giving American the middle finger, just because you don’t think anything is wrong with a middle finger?
Get it yet?
86 kimbal // Aug 12, 2008 at 11:56 pm
I am not condemning Spain. I think it is a beautiful country with a wonderful culture and people. Every country has problems with racism and injustices but you cannot condone them. They must be dealt with and made aware of. If not, ignorance and stagnation will only make them the norm leading to hatred and discontent.
87 Lucas // Aug 13, 2008 at 12:03 am
It’s interesting to see how the whole world has accepted the western prejudices and beauty standards. If a chinese person makes the western-eye gesture, it’s stupid. If a western person makes the slit-eyed gesture, it’s an aggression. There’s no symmetry, and everyone seems to accept that western supremacy.
88 USAsian // Aug 13, 2008 at 12:06 am
Nice USA! Wish I could have come up with that example instead. If Lucas doesn’t get it by now, he’ll never get it. But I will attempt one last time…
Lucas, in my mind, there’s nothing wrong with the word “Wetback”. I mean sticks and stones right? So may I call you Wetback Lucas?
89 Lucas // Aug 13, 2008 at 12:07 am
The middle finger means “get sodomized”. Again, that’s a negative thing. Cannot be compared with having slanty eyes. The more you insist, the deeper you fall.
90 Francisco // Aug 13, 2008 at 12:08 am
USAsian,
Yes, that was my point. I agree with you and that’s why I apologized. I just added an explanation of the origin of the offense as part of the apology and as information for other posters.
Lucas and other Spaniards (os lo digo con todo el cariño, chicos): I do understand what you mean, it’s not the same thing to make fun of something inherently bad or clear flaw (such that someone is ubly) as pointing out a peculiar but nice or not particularly negative feature (e.g., being blonde or brunette or whatever). In the first case there is no doubt it is a deliberate insult, the other may be just a comment.
BUT (and it’s a real big but) if that comment happens to hurt the person, an apology is due. You are arguing the Spanish basketball team’s photograph was an instance of the second case.
I agree but, as USA and USAsian have said, the feelings of the other part (Asian people in this case) are the ultimate criterion to decide whether something is or is not offensive.
91 kimbal // Aug 13, 2008 at 12:10 am
I would think both would be equally offensive. I don’t think you can differentiate racism. Racism is racism. Ignorance is ignorance. By the way, two wrongs do not make a right. If someone hit me, would I go and hit someone else just to feel better about it and think that was normal? If so please check yourself in. I’m sure you’ll find plenty of space at the local “get a clue” clinic.
92 USA // Aug 13, 2008 at 12:11 am
Lucas, your responses and refusal to address or acknowledge anything I’ve brought up tells me all I need to know. You just don’t get it and aren’t receptive to other points of views.
You are incredibly naive (not unintelligent, but naive).
93 Francisco // Aug 13, 2008 at 12:12 am
Kimbal, please read carefully: that is exactly what I said.
94 kimbal // Aug 13, 2008 at 12:14 am
Sorry Francisco. My comment was not directed at you.
95 USA // Aug 13, 2008 at 12:14 am
Lucas, I have to laugh. You really missed my point on the whole middle finger analogy. You really do not get it, and I’m forced to take back my assertion that you are not unintelligent. By the way, as an American I can tell you that the middle finger does not mean “get sodomized”.
96 Francisco // Aug 13, 2008 at 12:15 am
Oh, sorry for the misunderstanding, Kimbal.
97 USAsian // Aug 13, 2008 at 12:19 am
OH MY GOSH! Wetback Lucas still doesn’t get it!!! So depressing. Like a post previously said, your logic is very skewed. Ok, ONE MORE TIME in your own words more or less…
If a Spaniard calls a westerner a Dryfront, it’s stupid. If a western person calls a Spaniard a Wetback, it’s an aggression.
You gotta get it by now. I believe in YOU!
98 Sil // Aug 13, 2008 at 12:25 am
Hey USAsian..if the headline “Wetbacks win” was posted in regards to the Spanish team, absolutely not one person in Spain would find it offensive.. specially since wetbacks is a term that “americans” used to describe Mexicans.
Not sure what school you went to but in my school they taught us that Spain and Mexico are two different countries.
Get an education and then speak!!!!
99 Lucas // Aug 13, 2008 at 12:25 am
“Labiodental fricative” means F***:
http://www.straightdope.com/art/1998/980904.gif
I’m not into “personal attacks”, as you said. Good nite.
100 Canadian // Aug 13, 2008 at 12:29 am
USAsian, actually no Spaniard would be offended by wetback. It’s a derogatory term used against Mexicans swimming across the US Border. But I understand your point.
I agree that even if the picture was not meant to offend or be racist, it was insensitive and in many ways ignorant. An apology is owed.
101 USA // Aug 13, 2008 at 12:30 am
Not really sure what that cartoon means, but ok, Lucas.
Just for clarity, giving the middle finger means “f*** you”, which does not mean “get sodomized”; It’s meant as a disrespectful gesture with no particular meaning. Hope that clears it up.
102 lauren // Aug 13, 2008 at 12:32 am
The Spanish are truly the biggest losers on the European continent. It’s good thing we (the British) crushed them 500 years ago because jerks like them have no business doing anything more than cleaner toilets in bus stations. The reality is, whether any Spaniard likes it or not, China is on an unstoppable trajectory to becoming an economic superpower and with it - at some point, the most modern country on the planet. As a Brit, I would any day prefer to have a relationship with the soft spoken, civilized, and gentle people of China, than with the moronic bull-fighting ignoramuses of Spain and their cavemen-like breed.
103 Lucas // Aug 13, 2008 at 12:37 am
USAsian: if you watch a map, you’ll see that Madrid is to the West of Birmingham (England), so actually Spain is more western that any other Euro nation, except Ireland, etc. Actually, we created the Western world in 1492.
And I’d love to be a wetback… you don’t know how warm August is in Spain!!
104 Francisco // Aug 13, 2008 at 12:37 am
Sil,
I was about to inform USAsian about that piece of data, but NOT in your insulting terms, which I think are completely inappropriate. USAsian is just looking for a comprehensible example to make Lucas understand why Asian people find the photograph offensive.
USAsian,
Dorky as its, Sil’s comment is right. Being called “wetback” does not sound offensive in Spain. Maybe that’s the cause of all the misunderstanding? I can’t think of any clear-cut, caricature-like stereotype that is automatically offensive for most modern-day Spaniards. Maybe that’s because (hard to believe, given some of the posts) we Spaniards have been self-criticizing for a long time and have assimilated most of the negative stereotypes.
That may be an interesting issue for some other time. At any rate, it is clear that stereotypes (deliberate or not) hurt and should be either avoided or mended as soon as they are detected.
105 USA // Aug 13, 2008 at 12:47 am
“Maybe that’s the cause of all the misunderstanding? I can’t think of any clear-cut, caricature-like stereotype that is automatically offensive for most modern-day Spaniards.”
Francisco, you seem to be a very reasonable person and I enjoy the discourse. I think you hit the nail on the head on this one. That is exactly why Lucas fails to comprehend why this may have been offensive to Asians. There is no comparable example to use for modern day Spaniards on a physical basis. Plus I would assume that Lucas lives in Spain and has therefore never experienced significant racism directed at him.
I can only speculate that Spanish-Americans or recent Spanish immigrants to the US have experienced some level of racism and can understand why certain sensitivities exist, perhaps not on the physical level (to my earlier point about different ethnicities facing different types of racism) but perhaps on the social level (i.e. assumed to be illegal aliens or “wetbacks”).
106 Francisco // Aug 13, 2008 at 12:47 am
A further example of what I just wrote: in his post Lauren has made a really big effort to be offensive against us, Spaniards. It’s not a simple stereotype but a whole bunch of them, complete with historical (and only partially accurate) bravado and explicit oathwords.
And still I don’t feel particularly ashamed or offended. I think it has more to do with ignorance and insecurity on his part, which need not be automatically generalized to all British people, of course.
If you want to insult a Spaniard in a fast, surgical way, I think you have to fall back on regional or personal features. General Spanish stereotypes just don’t cut it.
107 USAsian // Aug 13, 2008 at 12:56 am
Francisco,
You are much more eloquent than I am and yes, that was the best example I could come up with because my Spanish friend hates being confused as a Mexican due to the negative stereotypes.
And Canadian, thanks for understanding my point as well.
Sil,
Of course I know Mexico and Spain are 2 different countries. Clearly I offended YOU personally even though that was not my intention. But to practice what I preach, I do apologize.
108 Francisco // Aug 13, 2008 at 12:59 am
Thanks, USA. I just read your post. Yes, I guess Lucas and many other Spaniards haven’t felt much racism. Nowadays western Europeans tend to get along with one another (on an individual level, not as countries) and not many Spaniards go to USA and those who do, tend not to be too bad off and look caucausian and “euro” so we tend to be safe from most direct racism these days. I think we have to start developing more empathy and fast. Maybe all this basket team photo affair may help us understand??
109 Español // Aug 13, 2008 at 1:01 am
Facts:
#1 I’m Spaniard :P
#2 The eye gesture is not offensive in Spain. At all. It’s more of a childish thing, as told before 10 times :P
#3 The ad tried to be affectionate.
#4 The ad happened to be highly offensive (and hence clumsy); because,
#5 The eye gesture is offensive for some/many/most? asian people in the world.
Given that, i think the Spanish Basketball Federation should apologize asap. I think they could even make the most of it an give a slight explanation; i mean, facts 2 and 3.
I quite agree with all of you.
Spain is far from being perfect in these issues. I quite agree with some calm (and long) analysis made before by 2 or 3 fellow Spaniards up here. But I think there’s also an important point here: most of us can’t just stand English ppl giving us lessons on racism, or even behaviour. Of course theres good and bad ppl everywhere! But, as a country, all of us are sometimes far from being always perfect. And they’re also the country of the hooligans, the drunkards of the Mediterranean coasts, not to mention the less integrating colonialism, or the most aggresive, biased and insulting journalism of the whole continent.
110 miguelito // Aug 13, 2008 at 1:06 am
For Kimbal and Cheryl:
look, not all Spanish people are racist, not all English are drunk all the time. I am 31 years old. I told above: I apologize if someone felt offended by the AD. I am sure it was not Basket team and Publicity Comany to offend anyone. Believe me.
Maybe you think that by using so many excuses we are showing off as a sort of racist elite. Don’t be missunderstood. We accept our faults. The problem is when since you’re a child (Spanish one) you grow by watching on TV that a Mexican is the same than a Spaniard for any average American. The problema is when 500 or 400 years later, the rest of the countries accused you for what you ancestor did in SoutAmerica. The problem is when hald Europe accused you of being extremely religious (althought that was in Middle Age or XVII century and not now). The problem is when most of the world doesn’t know that Spain has more female ministers than males and still we are seen as machistas (macho men mentality). The problem is when after suffer almost 40 years of dictatorship (I said SUFFER, such as Chinese are suffering now, Russian in the past , Italians under Mussolini, or Cubans right now) an english well stablish man such as Alex Ferguson is able to make jokes with Franco just because R.Madrid want Ronaldo sign for the team. The problem is when in spite there is not almos native indians in USA, all the people focus on what Spanish did in America but few words are used to talk about what English did in that continent. The problem is when Dan Brown show Spain in one of his novels as an underdeveloped country instead of showing reality (we are among 10th biggest economies of the world). The problem is when by using Opus Dei (religious movement born in Spain) in Da Vinci Code as the bad guys representation, all people think that I (and my Spanish fellows) think that we are very strict catholic people, in spite of the fact that, for instance, me and my friends never have gone to mass. The problem is when rest of the world talk about my country just using topics. The problem is when they accuse me of being racist but the worst experience with racism I’ve ever had was in Brighton (a fantastic town where I studied in the university and I lived for more than two years), when they didn’t let me in a pub just becouse as a board in the door noted: “dogs and Spanish are not allow to come in”. The problema is when English people doesn’t speak anothe language apart from their own English and, therefore, they can’t undestand the real meaning of certain sentences in other language, and they do a literal translation which leads to a mistake and then accuse us of being racist. The problem is that Belgium is remembered by Tintin and Milou comics and Van Damme but not because their dark past in Africa, where they almost killed the entire population of Congo en Central Africa, just a bit more than 100 years ago (and not 300, 400, 500 as Spanish in America…althougt time doesn’t matter) and still we are remembered as violent but not them.
I love to travel, I love other countries and I hate many things from my own country, believe me. But, please, do not make general oppinions. Instead, read ORIENTALISM from Edward Said and you will undestand many about I am talking about.
Coming back to sport: Basket players can be as ignorant as any other. I watched on TV few days ago that one of the Spanish players wanted to say something in Chinese and he said: ARIGATO, which is Japanese!!
HOPE BOTH OF YOU UNDESTAND MY POST AND DON’T FEEL OFFENDED ANY LONGER BY MY FUTURE POSTS.
111 USA // Aug 13, 2008 at 1:08 am
Yes, I think the one positive thing that arose out of all this is the dialogue it sparked.
And yes I would agree that many Spaniards that come to the US tend to be relatively well off and therefore not socially disadvantaged, so perhaps not exposed to much direct racism in the US either. I don’t really fault Lucas (and to a certain extent Sil) for his inability to understand my points firsthand, but I do fault him for refusing to acknowledge that those feelings do exist in this world and that racism is very real and complicated.
112 miguelito // Aug 13, 2008 at 1:10 am
By the way, sorry for my mistakes when I write. It’s so late and I am should go to bed,…is hard to write when my eyes are almost close, giving up to drem!! je, je.
113 USA // Aug 13, 2008 at 1:31 am
Miguelito, rest assured that your written English is far superior to my written (or spoken for that matter) Spanish, so no apologies necessary.
I am curious though in exploring this recurring response by many of you about the slanted-eye gesture being something “light-hearted” and “innocent” from childhood that is simply being misunderstood. Believe me, we used to have the same “silly” childhood songs about Asians in the US and I can assure you they are not acceptable today and are not really as innocent as you make them out to be.
My point being, even though you may have learned these songs/gestures as a kid in the guise of a fun song or in a spirited atmosphere, you really have to wonder why these songs were taught in the first place. I hardly think it is rooted in a sincere desire to celebrate diversity. I don’t think it was taught with malicious intent per say, but I do believe its origin is rooted perhaps unconsciously in magnifying (and lightly ridiculing) differences, not celebrating them.
In other words, those “lighthearted” childhood songs aren’t as innocent as you may think when you really think about it.
114 Sil // Aug 13, 2008 at 1:54 am
USAsian, I don’t offend easily.. Spain has know racism first hand for many years..
Every country is racist and every country practices some sort of nationalism. To accuse Spain of being racist without citing the rest of the world, is plain ignorant.
I think that “we” are all forgetting who sponsored the ad that this picture was made for. A Chinese company.. not a Spanish one.. A CHINESE ONE!!! That is the little simple fact that this British article decided to leave out.
USA, I understand your points, very well. However, we (as in you an I) live in a country where racism is experienced on a daily basis (that is if you really do live in the US). Since we do experience it all the time with racist remarks (such as “wetbacks”, “rednecks”, “porch monkeys”…do I need to go on???). We should be a little more immune to certain things. Specially since we were taught not to judge a whole nation by the actions of a few. Isn’t that the reason why it upsets us that Europe can’t stand us? Becuase we are being judged as a country based on the actions of a few “idiots” (for lack of a better word).
I’m not siding with Spain or with China.. I’m just reacting to the posts.. I don’t think Spaniards should be called ignorant and I think that everyone is entitled to their own opinion. If Lucas wants to defend “his” people then he should be able to.
Francisco.. if I confused China with Japan then I’d be told to get an education. So please, only defend what concerns you!
115 texmex // Aug 13, 2008 at 2:01 am
hey racism is rasism those guys are ignorant plus chin