18 responses so far

• 1 Latoya Johnson // Jan 8, 2009 at 7:31 pm

  Eh, you’ve got it a little wrong. PC Police at the Spoiler? Why I never…

• 2 Corey // Jan 8, 2009 at 9:05 pm

  Hey, your site is great and all, but I wrote this story up yesterday and got no credit for it here: http://real.theoffside.com/team-news/grapevine-0107.html

  I understand its not a big deal but a little consideration next time would be nice, we are both soccer blogs after all. Thanks.

• 3 Ryan Bailey // Jan 8, 2009 at 11:17 pm

  Thanks for your comment, Corey.

  I’ve never been to your site before, so couldn’t possibly credit you. As you can see above, we have correctly credited our source, a practise The Spoiler strictly adheres to.

  Incredibly, it seems that information on this public newsworthy event was available in more places than the Real Offside.

• 4 Manuel // Jan 9, 2009 at 3:35 am

  It’s not really that racist. I’m Spanish and culturally our notions as to what constitutes racism are just not the same. Sergio Ramos’ blackface just represents Balthazar the one of the Magi that was black. It just is what it is. For example calling someone “mi negro” (as in my black friend) is a term of endearment used for those of a darker complexion or whites with black hair and dark eyes used much in the same way as “blondie” is. Racial comments also do not imply malice. poking fun at someone’s race as long as it’s done with humor is viewed as okay in Spanish society as long as there’s no violence implied in the action or speech people laugh about it and go back and forth with the jokes. I understand it’s weird and probably hard to grasp from a non-Spanish perspective but it ain’t exactly throwing bananas at the soccer pitch when a black player touches the football as it’s happened in England. Cultural difference is all it is and maybe Spain is just a bit too insular but it really does not come from a bad place.

• 5 Jessie // Jan 9, 2009 at 7:12 pm

  Manuel, you have just proved the point that the Spanish, yourself included, ARE indeed racist. You are just oblivious to it. Because you have a homogenous society, you don’t have enough minorities to publicly object and show you the error of your ways. Racism is not only about hatred and violence. Racism is about the majority holding power over a minority, the power to hold the best jobs, the best houses and the best education for their own, excluding the minorities. Racism is also about using that power to “poke fun at” that minority and then justify it as being okay, simply because you decide it is okay, without ever asking a member of that race or minority. Racism is about continually offending one group and rather than considering whether that group has a point, blindly justifying it as part of the majority’s “culture,” as you have done. Racism does not have to come from malice. Most racism comes from ignorance. I am a black person. All black people I know are offended by black face. It is a demeaning portrayal of my people. If I insult you, and you tell me that I have insulted you, what would your feelings be if I replied, “No I haven’t. I didn’t insult you, that’s just how I am.” You know when you have been insulted, whether the offender meant to insult you or not. The insistence that there is no offense when THE ENTIRE WORLD DISAGREES WITH YOU, is even more insulting, and more blindly racist. And you my friend, though through ignorance and not malice, are a racist.

• 6 Josie // Jan 10, 2009 at 8:12 am

  Every culture is different and some slack should be allowed… to a point. Countless times in the media and in the general world public various groups have complained about the Spanish behaving in ignorant ways toward non-whites.

  Over and over, they seem to just not get it. Black face historically has been connected with slavery and post-slavery. It is considered an insult by the majority of people of color. At the minimum, there is a colonialist condescension involved. Making excuses as was stated above borders on patronizing.

  Third world people want to be treated with a benefit of doubt. They want basic respect and consideration. Part of that consideration is making an effort to understand others feelings and backing off. The fact that the Spanish institutions, specifically the sporting institutions still don’t get that they are hurting others indicates a selfishness and lack of empathy.

  If the Spanish dislike their northern European neighbors thinking they are better than them because they are “Mediteranean,” then they need to look in the mirror and really think about what they are doing to people darker than themselves.

• 7 Habibe // Jan 11, 2009 at 10:39 pm

  Jessie, I’m from Brazil. For us, this is not racism. It’s just a cultural view. So, yours “THE ENTIRE WORLD DISAGREES WITH YOU” is quite selfish.

  By the way, in some nations, a “positive finger” means a “middle finger”. Got the point?

• 8 Matthijs // Jan 12, 2009 at 7:34 pm

  I don’t believe that the Spanish, and thus Sergio Ramos, are being racist in this particular case. Im from Holland myself and we have a very similar tradition here with our own ‘Sinterklaas’. Every year Sinterklaas comes on a steamship, riding his white horse, and brings his helpers who are called… ‘Black Pete’s’. Black Pete’s are usually white people with black face paint on, just like Sergio here above. When I tell my friends in America about Sinterklaas’ helpers they wont believe me and accuse me how racist we are, probably cause we’re on a constant high with our liberal drugs policy….Now I dont know if ‘yall’ have ever been to the USA but especially the southern states are some of the most racist places i have been.
  The thing is that black people here in Holland don’t think it is racist, just like they didn’t think that the chocolate covered marshmellow that litterally translated was called ‘negro kiss’ was racist. (the negro kiss is called simply kiss today, due to the work of a few people, (mosty white) that thought the previous name was an outrage.)
  Now im not saying that just because Black Pete has been around for a long time, and therefore has become a tradition, it cant be racist. But if no one is hurt and more importantly not even offended, then i believe an innocent traditional figure like Black Pete or Balthazar that entertains little kids , is not improtant enough to abolish ;).

• 9 Josie // Jan 13, 2009 at 7:55 am

  Based upon the European responses thus far, I can see why there are few black people in high ranking positions in government or corporations in these countries.

  It is obvious that they are clueless about race relations. If there were plenty of people of color in positions of power in their countries then I could accept most of the comments above and and believe that they should not be taken seriously. But since this is not the case, the above is a symbolic indicator of the dismissal view, or is it a lack of awareness (?) of race relations.

  Say what you will of American racism. There are still more opportunities for blacks in America than there is in Europe. I have spoken to many well educated Africans who used to live in Europe and had to leave for the Americas, because they could not move into positions of leadership in European countries despite their hard work and University education.

  Europeans seem to be very comfortable with blacks in entertainment or sport roles but not in roles that require intellect or leadership.

  The black face symbolism simply illustrates this sad reality.

• 10 Dear me // Jan 27, 2009 at 1:51 pm

  I dont see this as racism. For example, lets say that we go to a dress up party and dress like a black guy, with an afro, paint your face black, and wear some clothes of african colour like the jamaican hat. Would this be racism? Let me answer my own question, no it wouldnt! I dont think that the slant eyed gesture also done by the Spanish before the peking olimpics was a racist gesture. If anything its celebrating our differences and not seeing them as a negative but a positive. We accept our differences and not fight about them, we celebrate and embrace, isnt that what the spanish are doing?

• 11 Fuerteloco // Mar 30, 2009 at 9:08 am

  why english and americans wants to teach us what is racist and what is not? where’s the racism on sergio ramos? his best friend in real madrid probably is mahammadou diarra… we joke about big ears…big nose…why not about skin? it’s more important?

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms1CFqHD8yg

  Son: did you know that nerea is black?
  Dad: yes, of course
  Son: …. me not

  i think is a cool ad explaining what we’re talking about

• 12 HEY Josie // May 30, 2009 at 11:47 pm

  Hey Josie I’m guessing your a black American, Yes? What about Seal & Heidie Klum’s White trash wedding theme?

  Robert Downy Jr had black face in Tropic Thunder and the Wayne brothers had White face on for the movie White Chicks. They are all AMERICANS were there huge headlines calling it Racist over there?

  geez I don’t know what the fine line of Racism is anymore?…..

  fuck it. This is NOT Racist at all I don’t see no malice/evil behind this at all. End of story

  Damn Brits/American/English bloggers always blogging about this I don’t see other nations/languages blogging about it. Hey maybe they are the Ones who are most Racist being Race sensitive everything seems to be offensive to them now a days. You do have the issue of N. England vs S. England after all

  At first I didn’t understand the saying “multiculturalism destroys nations” but now I do. It’s just causes more problems indeed

  I hope Spain Keeps Bullfighting ole FUCK McDonald’s

• 13 Josie // May 31, 2009 at 6:03 pm

  @HEY Josie

  You are quite keen on stereotyping, huh? It appears you have a strong need to label me. That sentence alone tells me more about you than you may have imagined.

  Of course, the other examples you give or just as bad. There was plenty of criticism of what Seal and Heidi did. If memory serves, Robert received backlash. The White Chicks film did not become a hit and the film critics panned it pretty bad.

  You most certainly have the right to live in your deluded world. That is your individual choice. Just don’t be surprised that you will insult people as you go along. If you should act upon your beliefs, please prepare yourself for the possibility of doing it to a person that will not accept it and you will have to deal with the consequences of your actions.

• 14 HEY Josie // Jun 8, 2009 at 6:37 am

  Wut

• 15 unbiased and out of this galaxy // Jun 11, 2009 at 5:06 pm

  y can’t we all just get along..

• 16 unbiased and out of this galaxy // Jun 11, 2009 at 5:09 pm

  why can’t we all just get along…

• 17 Nigerian-American // Sep 2, 2009 at 10:02 am

  Ha ha. Certain of the Spanish are so amusingly ignorant.

  @Habibe, are you Brazilian of significant African ancestry? If not, I don’t know that you’re qualified to speak on what is “racist” in Brazil. I’ve been there, by the way. I am a lawyer and visited a semi-fancy restaurant. White people kept looking like they had seen a ghost. Of course, I looked back at them because I was astonished that humans could be so crude. Anyways…

  To be fair, the Spanish on this commentary have not engaged in name calling. That being said, ignorance is ignorance. As Josie and Jessie pointed out, the difference between “middle fingers” and “big nose” is that the narrative of slavery and discrimination follows skin. Spanish should be familiar - you guys were big colonizers. I mean, you guys were experts at the game! (even Philipinos have Spanish names)

  Anyway, here’s a thought - how about you guys get actually get creative and make fun of…white skin? If its all about pokin fun, how come its always directed at…others? Translucent white skin, plenty of material there if you ask me.

  Here’s the rub: you guys don’t get that skin is completely and totally incidental to human beings and their capacity. You buy into your skin as conferring some sort of greater knowledge, benefit and others (particularly black) doing otherwise. It is the only reason you would actually waist your time putting paint on your face for a party. Go to Jamaica and you will see there is more to them than black skin. Go to Asia and there is more to them than narrow eyes. Racist. Ignorance… Or maybe you guys just need to travel out of Spain!

• 18 Habibe // Sep 2, 2009 at 11:24 am

  @Nigerian-American, I’m Brazilian, by the way I have African blood in my veins and live in “favela” (for you A.K.A. “slum”) - peharps my Fairly English. For sure, you are not Brazilian, so you are not qualified to speak on Brazilian social issues, right? In Brazil, the major problem is about class discrimination, it’s not about the colour of your skin. And, for God sake, what “Nigerian-American” means? Political correctness? Metaphor of the day: Racism is a two way road.